Catholic church

Dateline: Wed 30 Nov 2011

OK, we survived the changes in the liturgy, introduced this past Sunday.  In truth, most Catholics did and will continue to stumble through the new, more awkward (at first) words, but it is not a huge deal. Interestingly, a New York Times story Sunday reported that Corpus Christi parish in Manhattan (where Thomas Merton was converted while a student at Columbia University) has one Mass that has never deviated from the post-Vatican II liturgy. (!)

The entire service was/is done in Latin. In Merton's day -- the parish serves Columbia -- a priest stood in the aisles, translating the words into English. Those were and are the OLD words. Hence the "change" was, for them, not a change.

So much for crisis. Same old, same old at Corpus Christi.

Just for perspective, tho, other crises have quickly bubbled up. A priest at the Vatican -- the chief exorcist, 85 years old -- has declared yoga to be Satantic. Just for good measure, he threw Harry Potter into the cauldron, too.

As the Rat (blog) said, you have to look at this link, just to see the picture.

To think, possible new witchhunts will be directed at yoga teachers!

I love my church, but I think this is not the PR we need.

Then there's the story about the church possibly buying the Crystal Cathedral in California.

See how the changes in liturgy are really not that big of a deal?

Perspective. It's all about it.

Oh, and this also needs perspective: a devout woman Catholic will be "ordained" as a priest in Indianapolis.  No, the church Official will not preside, but Catholics will be there, and she will be vested. This has already happened in Minneapolis.

As some Catholics say, the church is the people....and the people don't always meet in parish buildings; sometimes they meet in homes and take matters into their own hands.

This is a church with a big tent.



hendy [Member] said:

Vested? A woman? Good for you.

Now get back in the kitchen where you belong. Dinner was supposed to be a half hour ago, and you're playing on the GD computer.

2011-11-30 16:48:57

ruthholl [Member] said:

Or playing with the communion wine? Ok, this is an outrage. Mea culpea.
But the devil -- YOU!!!! -- made me say it.

2011-11-30 16:59:04

Whitebeard [unverified] said:

Ruth, as a non-denominational protestant, I respectfully have to say I really can't understand all of this fuss about a change in the liturgy of the Catholic church. I guess I need some of my Catholic friends to explain to me why this is such an important development.

Seems to me, relationship with God and Christian love for others takes place 99 percent of the time outside of church walls. I don't even go to church services and I honestly don't feel like I'm missing much in the spiritual department.

So why is a church service ritual/tradition such a big deal? I just don't get it. I've run into websites on the internet that basically contend that If the Mass is not done "old-fashioned" in Latin, then it doesn't count to God. Many of these websites also tell me I am going to hell because I am not Catholic. Kind of like when an old Pentecostal guy told me some time ago that I am going to hell because I wear a beard (seems like a lot of religious folks are wanting me to get the hot foot).

Christian religious churches/groups in the U.S. so often seem to major in minors and minor in majors. There's a world of hurting, suffering, hungry, victimized people out there, for God's sake.

By the way, Tom Merton was a prophet. One of the primary founders and fathers of the modern Christian social justice movement. A truly spiritual man who suffered the slings and arrows of the church establishment for his radical non-conformity.

2011-11-30 20:58:52

hendy [Member] said:

Merton was a soldier in an army begun long ago. He adapted ancient thinking to modern situations in an almost zen-like way. It was both rewarded, but also vilified. IMHO, a post-Catholic, he was a great man and the steward of practical application of great concepts.

WRT ritual, Catholicism is the epitome of ritual, the rock of St Peter, etc etc. I learned more dogma before age 8, than most non-Catholics learn in a lifetime. Dogmatism also begets a host of other problems. The testosterone problem in the Catholic Church is one of its biggest, and its denial of factual reality. It is an ancient machine whose gears turn for the sake of goodness, but creaks and absorbs much craziness into its machinery.

I believe strongly in the aphorism that the road to hell (if there is one; seems hopeful) is paved with good intentions. Civilization is a razor-thin non-existential concept and the Catholic Church weaves civilization with its dogma, as though it's always been right.

Many Catholics are very good people, and their good intentions are manifested in good works, large, and small. My parents are/were good Catholics and may well be rewarded. I don't think they were necessarily looking for the reward; it was happenstance if it occurred. Their intentions were concern for all.... perhaps they were proto-99'ers. They warmed me to St Vincent de Paul, Merton, and others. They knew the wisdom of Day, MLK, and others. They lived through WW2 and late Depression America. They also unwittingly warmed me to Eugene Debs.... and others. Unrelenting advocates of social justice. Referential and factual thinkers. I miss them.

2011-11-30 21:46:02

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